My question is will the yield be decreased to greater extent while converting from i

[ramybiz]

Dear sir.
we are into coconut cultivation and IDEA group has proposed a unit for manufacturing organic fertilizer for our own use..like

Base 1----Decomposing Cultures, Vermi, Effective Micro Organism, Farm wastes manure, c bacteria, plant vitamins and natural plan growth promoters. And etc

Base 2 --- Seaweed extract, Bio Amino – acids, Bio Humic, Bio minerals, press mud and etc this Base supplies most of the major, secondary and micronutrients

Base 3 ---- Azospirillum, Azotobacter, Rhizobium, Phosphobacteria and Trichoderma veride, Pseudomonas
Base 4 ----- sanjevini paste, which is used to enrich the product before applying the plants

Base 5 ------- Cow dung, Poultry Manure and other farm wastes
My question is will the yield be decreased to greater extent while converting from inorganic to organic????

 

[kirti s]

initial yield in organic farming

Dear sir,
If u stay in AC chamber for a day and once u came out what is the feeling ?

ans is u feel awkwardness same thing with plants also, applying chemicle fertilizers is like keeping paticent in ICU how long u supply them till they give good yield once stapped or when it reached peak what ever the qty u applied no yield that means land is barren what has happened in punjab, haryan today.there will be intially soil need to stabilize and start mobilizing nutrents, the period may be 1 to 3 yrs depending on the inputs u use

REgards

Kirti Naik

 

[pioneeragri]

I do 100 per cent agree with Kirti.

 

[ksraj]

Hello,

Please contact me with following details
1. Your location
2. Total area under Coconut cultivation
3. No. of trees per acre
4. Space between each row & Space between 2 coconut trees.
5. Age of trees.
6. Variety of coconut plant.
7. Present yield per plant per year.
8. Details of any Inter Crops if cultivated.
9. Your background.

Please hurry up to learn an excellent alternative which is very cost effective but will give you excellent yield
of more than 200 nuts per tree every year. I can guide you freely. You have to have an open mind & thoroughly examine the efficacy of this method & make choice between the present proposal which is not only very complex but also much more expensive and labour intensive. Before choosing a method, you have to weigh the different parameters. If a particular method gives more yield & much of the income from the increased yield goes to meet the cost of cultivation, who is benefited-the farmer or the consultant who is arranging the new inputs.
Pl. clear your mailbox as PM's are bouncing.Pl.show some seriousness when you are seeking solutions in a Forum of this type.
Pl. send a PM & let me have your email ID.


KSR

 

[ramybiz]

organic fertilizer: coconut yield???

Dear Sir
we are very much serious about the making and usage of that organic fertilizer for own use.we are almost in the final stage of taking up this project.But if you have a better one we welcome it the most. Information as requested by you:
location: Pollachi belt with good water resource& man power
Acre:100
Age:differs mostly from 15 35 8 @ 3 yrs old in black soil
Trees:5500 in yield and 1500 yet to give yield
Fertilizers now: NPK & micro-nutrients& goat waste
Gap btw trees: differs from 27x27 40x40 40x30 40x25
No/acre: around 70-75trees/acre
Yield:500000-525000 nuts/year
So kindly help us with your idea as soon as possible.
contact through PM
Thank you
Regards
Ramy

 

[vishwakarma]

Dear sir.
we are into coconut cultivation and IDEA group has proposed a unit for manufacturing organic fertilizer for our own use..like

Base 1----Decomposing Cultures, Vermi, Effective Micro Organism, Farm wastes manure, c bacteria, plant vitamins and natural plan growth promoters. And etc

Base 2 --- Seaweed extract, Bio Amino – acids, Bio Humic, Bio minerals, press mud and etc this Base supplies most of the major, secondary and micronutrients

Base 3 ---- Azospirillum, Azotobacter, Rhizobium, Phosphobacteria and Trichoderma veride, Pseudomonas
Base 4 ----- sanjevini paste, which is used to enrich the product before applying the plants

Base 5 ------- Cow dung, Poultry Manure and other farm wastes
My question is will the yield be decreased to greater extent while converting from inorganic to organic????

Hello,

Regarding your query,

My question is will the yield be decreased to greater extent while converting from inorganic to organic?

The yield will not decrease, it will increase depending on how well you manage to develop the dead soil / dying soil in to live soil

Also it is the profitability that will increase.

Regards

MRC

 

[ramybiz]

Hello MRC
Thank you sir for sharing your knowledge on my query. Any special advice or organic techniques to develop the dead soil / dying soil into live soil???

 

[vishwakarma]

Hello MRC
Thank you sir for sharing your knowledge on my query. Any special advice or organic techniques to develop the dead soil / dying soil into live soil???

Hi,

Organic farming system, is a method of farming system which primarily aimed at cultivating the land and raising crops in such a way, as to keep the soil alive and in good health by use of organic wastes (crop, animal and farm wastes, aquatic wastes) and other biological materials along with beneficial microbes (biofertilizers) to release nutrients to crops for increased sustainable production in an eco friendly pollution free environment.

Microbes play the key role in the organic farming.

For optimum yield you need to have live soil having certain level of presence of microbes (quantity and variety) in it.

In the dead soil there are no microbes.

In the dying soil the microbes are reducing in number and variety.

Microbes live in the soil by partnering with the roots of the plants.

The main idea behind organic farming and gardening is to encourage the animals and micro-plants of the soil to flourish and generate food particles from the native soil and a small amount of additives such as compost.

If the soil is sterilized from years of chemical saturation and then organic methods used, the crop will indeed be meager.

The sterile soil / the dead soil cannot support the plant growth required without the constant additions of chemical 'soup' that the soil requires once the micro-population is gone.

It take quite long time for a soil to be 'renewed' to the requirements necessary for optimal organic growth.

Healthy soil / live soil consists of a combination of minerals, water, air and organic matter. Worms and billions of microbes live in healthy soil, decomposing and converting soil components into usable plant nutrients.

Chemical fertilizers bypass the microbial source for plants to obtain their food, often killing beneficial bacteria and fungi. Microbial activity eventually ceases. With continued use, only regular additions of chemical fertilizers will then enable the soil to support plant life. At harvest, while dozens of minerals are removed from the soil only a few of them are replaced through chemical fertilization. Salts in chemical fertilizers can also be poisonous to earthworms.

Please do not get discouraged or loose faith in organic farming, if you do not get yield, up to your expectation, in the first year itself after switching to organic farming.

Your yield will increase every year.

Feeding the Soil

Various methods may be used to improve the fertility of soil. One of the most valuable is the addition of compost.

Large quantities of finished compost may be added even at planting time without any risk of burning the delicate root systems of young plants.

To build a compost heap simply alternate thin layers of brown and green material. Brown material is older, dryer, plant ingredients like dried grass stems, old corn stalks, dried peas or old hay. Purchasing straw may be necessary to obtain sufficient brown material. Green material is made up of young, moist, fresh ingredients like kitchen wastes such as fruit and vegetable peelings, eggshells, coffee grounds and carrot tops or garden wastes such as fresh grass clippings, cabbage leaves or fresh pea vines.

Well-rotted manure is another good organic soil amendment. The best manures to use are horse, cow, sheep and goat. These may be left to break down on their own or added to the compost pile.

Attracting Earthworms, the addition of compost will also attract earthworms to the soil. Worms eat organic matter and tunnel, helping to aerate and drain the soil. After predigesting the material, worms excrete "castings", leaving behind them fertile tunnels for microorganisms and the growth of plant roots. As well as having a large population of bacteria, worm castings are rich in nitrogen, magnesium and phosphorous. Combined with the air channels provided by tunneling, the result is an almost perfect environment for plant growth.

One interesting option is

The Chicken Tractor

If the patch of land, targeted for a improving the microbe population, is thick with weeds, another interesting method of improving the soil is to use the chicken tractor.

A small portable coop is placed atop an overgrown section and the chickens make short work of weeds and weed seeds, greens and insects before being moved along.

They contribute manure and their scratching loosens the soil. Add a nesting box and the chickens will also supply fresh eggs!

Similarly you can use cow / buffalo / sheep / goat / pigs to improve the soil.

Many farmers invite shepherd to bring their sheep and stay on their land.

Be careful if you resort to chemical sprays to control pests, because this will kill the microbes too.

It’s usually better to adopt an organic method.

Pesticides and fertilizers interfere with the careful balance of nature in the soil.

Regards

MRC

 

[vishwakarma]

Hello MRC
Thank you sir for sharing your knowledge on my query. Any special advice or organic techniques to develop the dead soil / dying soil into live soil???

Hello,

Regarding your query

is it worth the risk???

Yes

See it is the money that you earn / the profits that you earn and not number of nut that you get, is what is important.

Because with chemical based fertilizer you will have to keep on increasing the input quantity of the fertilizers to maintain the yield.

This will result in the decreasing profits every year as you have to use more and more fertilizer and also the cost of the fertilizers will keep increasing day by day.

Where as if you have your own cow, sheep, buffalo, pigs, chickens in the shade of coconut trees, in the coconut farm, then you will get your fertilizer free of cost and plus have additional income from the animal farming.

have you across any organic farm conversions like this in your experience???

Even if you look at others experience, it will not help you because of difference in the climatically different conditions

Regards

MRC

 

[nanjapa]

Thank you

Dear Vishwakarma (MRC)

Thank you for your excellent and informative reply to this question,
it clears a lot of doubts in the mind of beginers,
Regards

 

[atulkalaskar]

I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking.

First of all you need to understand what is organic fertilizer and how plants use it. Basically microbes break down natural material such as compost or manure and then they release essential nutrients such as N. P, K to the plants.

Unfortunately the break down process by microbes is independent that of what plant requires and thus when need of the plant is at it's highest or if the plant population is very large then microbes may not be able to break down enough materials and this will invariably starve the plants resulting in lower yield.

All over the world it is proven that organic will result in lower yield and yield will keep on going down if soil nutrients are not replaced and only way it can be done is by adding truck load of manures and giving land a break for a year.

For commercial growers this is a death trap and will not be a profitable in long term.

The only reason why organic food is expensive is not because it is good but because it is hard to produce in large qty and quality consistently.

So the only way is to use inorganic and organic mix approach whereby you do manage the life in your soil keeping it alive as well as use inorganic fertilizers sensibility so that they give your plants a boost.

Regards

Atul Kalaskar
Hope this helps some of the experts to give proper advise.

 

[vishwakarma]

I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking.

First of all you need to understand what is organic fertilizer and how plants use it. Basically microbes break down natural material such as compost or manure and then they release essential nutrients such as N. P, K to the plants.

Unfortunately the break down process by microbes is independent that of what plant requires and thus when need of the plant is at it's highest or if the plant population is very large then microbes may not be able to break down enough materials and this will invariably starve the plants resulting in lower yield.

All over the world it is proven that organic will result in lower yield and yield will keep on going down if soil nutrients are not replaced and only way it can be done is by adding truck load of manures and giving land a break for a year.

For commercial growers this is a death trap and will not be a profitable in long term.

The only reason why organic food is expensive is not because it is good but because it is hard to produce in large qty and quality consistently.

So the only way is to use inorganic and organic mix approach whereby you do manage the life in your soil keeping it alive as well as use inorganic fertilizers sensibility so that they give your plants a boost.

Regards

Atul Kalaskar
Hope this helps some of the experts to give proper advise.

Hello,

Thanks for your posting

"I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking."

Sorry to say that the experience of small farmers, all over the world, of switching to agriculture practices, based on the man made chemicals is too bad and is well known and documented by WHO and FAO and many others.

I hope you accept that WHO and FAO knows about agriculture.

If anybody wants the actual fact and figs just search the GOOGLE.

Just search for the Masanobu Fukuoka on Google and you will know all the facts.

Regarding your comment,

"The only reason why organic food is expensive is not because it is good but because it is hard to produce in large qty and quality consistently"

Organic food production cost less in long run.

Please visit the organic / natural faring farms in India.

It is the middleman who are exploiting the buyers of organic food.

Regards

MRC

 

[atulkalaskar]

Well excessive use of fertilizers is bad in every respect and if you read my notes it does say so. My objection is on the claim that organic cultivation leads to higher yield which is totally false.

Organic food costs less in short or long run is immaterial what is important is that as a commercial grower can you depend on it to support your business? Answer is no...

In fact to overcome the worst of organic and inorganic cultivation, I suggest one should go for soil less hydroponic cultivation.

 

[vishwakarma]

I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking.

First of all you need to understand what is organic fertilizer and how plants use it. Basically microbes break down natural material such as compost or manure and then they release essential nutrients such as N. P, K to the plants.

Unfortunately the break down process by microbes is independent that of what plant requires and thus when need of the plant is at it's highest or if the plant population is very large then microbes may not be able to break down enough materials and this will invariably starve the plants resulting in lower yield.

All over the world it is proven that organic will result in lower yield and yield will keep on going down if soil nutrients are not replaced and only way it can be done is by adding truck load of manures and giving land a break for a year.

For commercial growers this is a death trap and will not be a profitable in long term.

The only reason why organic food is expensive is not because it is good but because it is hard to produce in large qty and quality consistently.

So the only way is to use inorganic and organic mix approach whereby you do manage the life in your soil keeping it alive as well as use inorganic fertilizers sensibility so that they give your plants a boost.

Regards

Atul Kalaskar
Hope this helps some of the experts to give proper advise.

Hello,

Thanks for posting your response.

Regarding your query,

"I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking."

May be you are correct.

How many people really know, how & why exactly microbe and plant are related to each other and how they work to achieve the final result, that is to survive, without any need to depend on man made chemicals.

Look at number of plants on the planet earth and how many are fed with man made chemicals and how many are surviving without any need for man made chemicals.

The question of yield is relative.

It depend on who wants it.

For poor farmers / farm workers, whose survival depends on eating the produce grown in his farm / in the farm which they work, their primary need is to satisfy their hunger.

In India agriculture related activities has two main objectives to serve

1) Provide food to feed the hungry rural and urban population
2) Provide profits to pay the dividend to the equity investors, repay the principle and interest to banks and money lenders

Looking at the fact that,

“Fifty-seven million children in India are underweight because of lack of adequate nutrition. This is one third of all underweight children in the world,”

“Every 4th Indian Hungry?”

Making available food is prime importance

For the situation in which making and increasing profits is important

Increasing the yield is one way to solve the problem.

But ways and means to increase the yield, like Hydroponic, are they within a reach.

In India where ability to get the funding for the Agriculture related activity, depends on your ability to provide collateral security to the bank, how many farmers will be able to take up capital incentive methods to increase the yield.

Pushing farmers to take the loan, to implement solutions to increase the yield, is like gambling.

Organic farming methods / Integrated natural farming practices / low input sustainable agriculture practices developed over period of thousands of years, by observing how the nature works, helps farmers who are poor and unable to do get loan, to survive without any need to purchase man made chemicals.

In natural farming the yield may not match the world record, but will help them to live happily.

Today all sorts of technologies are available / being introduced to increase the yield in agriculture by changing the way nature produces the food products.

But,

Are they within the reach?
Are they sustainable?
Are they really benefit in the long term?

Just make rounds of the farms in rural parts of India & other countries and find out yourself, what is happening to the farmers when they blindly follow the path with dreams to increase the yield and make more money.

Farmers were made dependent on chemical fertilizers, to improve the yield and now every year the farmers has to stand in long ques to get fertilizers

In the past farmers watered their field with bull driven water pumping system and when they stopped using it and started using oil engines and electric pumps, now he has to wake up in night and water the fields or watch the field getting dry even if there is water in but no electricity to pump it and no money to buy the diesel.

In old days farmers use to make their own seed. Now farmer has to buy the seed from seed companies.

What is happening to the food consumers;

In drive to increase the milk yield from the cow, the hormones injected in the cow are getting passed on to the human consuming the milk produced by high yielding cows.

Compare the taste of the grains, vegetables, fruits produced from the high yielding hybrid seed, with produce from the desi seed.

Has anybody really analyzed and compared the nutritional element content per gram in the farm produce cultivated from high yielding seeds and fed by man made chemicals and the farm produce cultivated from the desi seed and organic farming.

Ok, tell me why the desi EGG / Chicken test better than the English one?

Regards

MRC

 

[vishwakarma]

I would like to differ from all these experts who claim that yield will go up by using organic fertilizers. they sure do not know what they are talking.

First of all you need to understand what is organic fertilizer and how plants use it. Basically microbes break down natural material such as compost or manure and then they release essential nutrients such as N. P, K to the plants.

Unfortunately the break down process by microbes is independent that of what plant requires and thus when need of the plant is at it's highest or if the plant population is very large then microbes may not be able to break down enough materials and this will invariably starve the plants resulting in lower yield.

All over the world it is proven that organic will result in lower yield and yield will keep on going down if soil nutrients are not replaced and only way it can be done is by adding truck load of manures and giving land a break for a year.

For commercial growers this is a death trap and will not be a profitable in long term.

The only reason why organic food is expensive is not because it is good but because it is hard to produce in large qty and quality consistently.

So the only way is to use inorganic and organic mix approach whereby you do manage the life in your soil keeping it alive as well as use inorganic fertilizers sensibility so that they give your plants a boost.

Regards

Atul Kalaskar
Hope this helps some of the experts to give proper advise.

Hello,

Thanks for your posting,

Regarding your comment,

" First of all you need to understand what is organic fertilizer and how plants use it. Basically microbes break down natural material such as compost or manure and then they release essential nutrients such as N. P, K to the plants.

Unfortunately the break down process by microbes is independent that of what plant requires and thus when need of the plant is at it's highest or if the plant population is very large then microbes may not be able to break down enough materials and this will invariably starve the plants resulting in lower yield. "

I am sorry to say that you have oversimplified view of the microbe world and their role in the growth of the plant.

Have you herd what is called as

Rhizosphere

The interaction of microbes with the plant is far complicated and highly integrated and in synchronization with the growth of the plant in the soil and above soil.

The rhizosphere is the narrow region of soil that is directly influenced by root secretions and associated soil microorganisms.

Soil which is not part of the rhizosphere is known as bulk soil.

The rhizosphere contains many bacteria that feed on sloughed-off plant cells, termed rhizodeposition, and the proteins and sugars released by roots. Protozoa and nematodes that graze on bacteria are also more abundant in the rhizosphere.

Thus, much of the nutrient cycling and disease suppression needed by plants occurs immediately adjacent to roots.

Regarding your comment,

" All over the world it is proven that organic will result in lower yield and yield will keep on going down if soil nutrients are not replaced and only way it can be done is by adding truck load of manures and giving land a break for a year. "

If it is true then how come rain forest survived for millions of years.

I think you have never heard what is called as crop rotation.

" For commercial growers this is a death trap and will not be a profitable in long term. "

Let the time decide.

As per the data available the area under the organic farming is increasing day by day, every year.

Regarding your comment,

" So the only way is to use inorganic and organic mix approach whereby you do manage the life in your soil keeping it alive as well as use inorganic fertilizers sensibility so that they give your plants a boost. "

You are confused and confusing others.

Organic farmers / natural farming farmers are happy and successful without use of any inorganic fertilizers.

Regards.

MRC

 

[vishwakarma]

Well excessive use of fertilizers is bad in every respect and if you read my notes it does say so. My objection is on the claim that organic cultivation leads to higher yield which is totally false.

Organic food costs less in short or long run is immaterial what is important is that as a commercial grower can you depend on it to support your business? Answer is no...

In fact to overcome the worst of organic and inorganic cultivation, I suggest one should go for soil less hydroponic cultivation.

Hello,

Thanks for the posting,

Regarding your comment,

Well excessive use of fertilizers is bad in every respect and if you read my notes it does say so.

The habit of using chemical fertilizer is like getting addicted. One should stop it at the time of starting itself.

Once you start using it, you will stop only after spoiling the land permanently.

While searching the information for problems due to use of chemical fertilizer, I found following information,

Fertilizer chemicals: Pollutants in Environment

Among them nitrogen and phosphorus are the major nutrients of concern that are frequently applied in crop field.

Contamination of water:

Heavy rain or irrigation following nitrogen application causes runoff and leaching of widely used nitrogen fertilizer compounds.

The source of soluble nitrogen in soil water are humus (37%), human and animal manure (22%), fixation by soil bacteria and algae (18%), rainfall (9%) and 13 percent may come from fertilizer added to soils.

So, soils heavily fertilized, are potential source of nitrate contamination in ground or runoff water.

Phosphorus fertilizers are partly responsible in increase of water contamination.

The major source of phosphorus contamination in surface water comes from direct damping of wastes and from eroded suspended solids from urban and agricultural land.

About 21 per cant of total phosphorus supply in water may come from fertilized land.

Leaching of nitrate, volatilization of ammonia, sediments and dissolved other fertilizer chemicals in runoff are all diffuse sources of pollution.

Increased intake of fertilizers is continuously putting additional poisonous ingredients into the soil and causing serious pollution problem


While searching the information for problems due to use of chemical fertilizer, I found following information,

Fertilizers and sustainability of agriculture

For the last three decades all over the developed world fingers have been raised on fertilizer, particularly nitrogen, as the number one enemy of sustainable agriculture.

One should not be surprised to see this happen if the rates of application are too high such as in Netherlands.

Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient both in plants and soils and considering the fact that its efficiency (nitrogen taken up by the above ground portion of crop expressed as percentage of that applied) varies from 30–40% in rice to 60–80% in other cereals, a sizable amount could be added to the environment as ammonia by volatilization from soil surface, nitrous oxide or elemental nitrogen by denitrification which is not restricted to tropical rice regions, but also applies to temperate regions and finally as nitrates by leaching in underground water.

The ammonia going in the atmosphere contributes to acid rains, while N2O is involved in depletion of ozone layer.

What one generally overlooks is that in the case of nitrogen fertilizers we recycle atmospheric nitrogen which is the raw material for ammonia and urea manufacture.

Atleast 30–50% of it is converted into human edible food and about one-third is immobilized in the soil and only the rest goes back to atmosphere either as ammonia or as N2O or N2 after denitrification of nitrates.

Phosphates, which are not so mobile in soil and get fixed in the soil as insoluble compounds could also leach from very light soils and may also move with eroded surface soil to surface waters such as lakes and ponds.

Within the European Union, the average load of nitrogen in 1990 ranged from 35 kg N ha in Spain to 195 kg N ha in the Netherlands and average loads of phosphate ranged from 17 kg P2O5 ha in Spain to 57 kg P2O5 ha in the Belgium.

So great has been the concern of European researchers regarding pollution caused by fertilizers (and manures) that it has been referred to as a ‘chemical time bomb’ and to overcome the explosion of this the need for immediate change in the land management amounting to abandonment of part of the agricultural land has been suggested.

Pollution of waters

More than any other aspect of environmental degradation, pollution of surface and underground waters due to fertilizers has received greater attention.

Water can be broadly classified into four categories:

(i) non-flowing such as lakes and ponds;
(ii) flowing such as rivers and canals;
(iii) river estuaries and
(iv) underground water.

Both nitrogen and phosphorus eutrophication of lakes and ponds leads to excessive growth of aquatic plants (macrophhytes) and algae (phytoplankton), which deplete the water of oxygen and this may lead to death of fishes and other aquatic animal life.

Furthermore, algal and decaying algal and aquatic plant tissue can lead to discolouration and bad odour and this affects recreational and aesthetic water uses.

As regards flowing water, phosphorus is the limiting nutrient.

When all phosphorus is used, plant growth ceases irrespective of the amount of nitrogen available.

Thus only if adequate phosphorus is available, increasing concentration of nitrates will lead to algal and macrophyte growth.

In estuaries, on the other hand, nitrogen controls the growth of algae and macrophytes.

In USA nitrates and phosphates are suspected of causing hypoxia of the Dead Zone of Gulf of Mexico.

Nutrient-enriched run-off from agriculture is also incriminated in the pfiesteria problem that killed a large number of fish in the Chakaspeake Bay, USA.

The recommended level of nitrogen is 0.1 to 1 mg , while the recommended level of phosphorus is nearly one-tenth of that of nitrogen.

Underground water is the major source of drinking water in India and even in developed countries like USA, 90% of the rural population depends on it for drinking water.

The safe limit or MCL (maximum contamination level) established by the US Environmental Protection Agency is 45 mg NO3–N or 10 mg N .

The European Union has fixed MCL limit at 50 mg NO3–N or 11 mg N.

Levels above this may lead to methaemoglobinaemia or blue baby syndrome.

This is due to conversion of haemoglobin to methaemoglobin due to nitrites formed from nitrates ingested with drinking water.

Haemoglobin is involved in transport of oxygen in the body, while methaemoglobin cannot and thus the patient suffers from anexia (lack of oxygen).

There are some indications that excess nitrates in the human body may react with amines and form nitrosamines that may lead to gastric cancer, but substantive data are missing.

In India the highest rate of fertilizer N is in Punjab, where an increase in shallow well waters from 0.04–6.15 in 1975 to 0.31–13.3 mg NO3–N in 1988 has been reported.

A recent survey in Delhi reported a range of 26–150 mg NO3–Nl in shallow well water, which is very high constituting a warning.

Regarding your comment,

My objection is on the claim that organic cultivation leads to higher yield which is totally false.

Take any example and one will find that the over a period of time the accumulated yield and profits are better in organic farming / Integrated natural farming compared to farming based on man made Chemicals the

Regards

MRC

 

[vishwakarma]

Well excessive use of fertilizers is bad in every respect and if you read my notes it does say so. My objection is on the claim that organic cultivation leads to higher yield which is totally false.

Organic food costs less in short or long run is immaterial what is important is that as a commercial grower can you depend on it to support your business? Answer is no...

In fact to overcome the worst of organic and inorganic cultivation, I suggest one should go for soil less hydroponic cultivation.

Hello,

Thanks for posting your response,

Regarding your comment,

" Organic food costs less in short or long run is immaterial what is important is that as a commercial grower can you depend on it to support your business? Answer is no..."

To find the answer YES or NO

and

Before coming to conclusion and writing the above mentioned comment about organic farming.

• Please visit and study the Natural Farms of the farmers practicing the integrated natural farming in India, where farmers are growing organic farm products. There is group on Yahoo and you will find may of them.
  
• Please contact Morarka foundation / ICCOA, (International Competence Centre For Organic Agriculture) based at Bangalore
  
• Please visit the exhibition of BioFach India and India Organic in the Bombay Exhibition Center, from 7–9 December 2010.

Regards

MRC

 

[vishwakarma]

Well excessive use of fertilizers is bad in every respect and if you read my notes it does say so. My objection is on the claim that organic cultivation leads to higher yield which is totally false.

Organic food costs less in short or long run is immaterial what is important is that as a commercial grower can you depend on it to support your business? Answer is no...

In fact to overcome the worst of organic and inorganic cultivation, I suggest one should go for soil less hydroponic cultivation.

Hello,

Thanks for posting your response.

Regarding your comment can you explain further what do you mean by

"the worst of organic and inorganic cultivation"

Regarding your comment

I suggest one should go for soil less hydroponic cultivation."

I hope you know that we are discussing about doing agriculture in soil and the point of discussion is that,

" Is it necessary to purchase and add any man made chemicals in soil, when microbes are doing it for millions of years for free of cost "

When you are eliminating the soil and soil microbes all together, there is nothing to discuss about the role played by soil microbes.

Now the discussion about doing agriculture without soil, by adapting hydroponic cultivation, can be started as separate thread.

or we can do it on this thread itself if you want.

Regards

MRC

 

[atulkalaskar]

Well one must say "copy and paste" is the best facility offered by the computer world.

Nevertheless I do not see any concrete data from your posting that makes me realize that "organic farming increases the yield".

We are focusing on how to make agriculture commercially successful and what I have been preaching is increasing efficiencies is the only way which should result in increased quality yield. For that end result if it takes the investment then so be it. Instead of paying of loans and freebies which in any case never help the poor farmers it is about time we take a hard commercial approach towards farming and make it a success story.

Here is what we can do instead of visiting any organizations and debate on what is good. You go ahead and find one farmer who is growing color capsicum organically and collect his data and publish on this forum. I am doing a commercial farm using hydroponics where I am planting 6000 plants.

Lets compare yield, costs, profits, fruit quality one on one. That sure will be a great comparison which will enlighten lot of folks.

Cheers!!!

 

[vishwakarma]

Well one must say "copy and paste" is the best facility offered by the computer world.

Nevertheless I do not see any concrete data from your posting that makes me realize that "organic farming increases the yield".

We are focusing on how to make agriculture commercially successful and what I have been preaching is increasing efficiencies is the only way which should result in increased quality yield. For that end result if it takes the investment then so be it. Instead of paying of loans and freebies which in any case never help the poor farmers it is about time we take a hard commercial approach towards farming and make it a success story.

Here is what we can do instead of visiting any organizations and debate on what is good. You go ahead and find one farmer who is growing color capsicum organically and collect his data and publish on this forum. I am doing a commercial farm using hydroponics where I am planting 6000 plants.

Lets compare yield, costs, profits, fruit quality one on one. That sure will be a great comparison which will enlighten lot of folks.

Cheers!!!

Hello,

Thanks for your posting,

Regarding your comment,

Well one must say "copy and paste" is the best facility offered by the computer world.

It is required to do so, because people will be be aware of the facts.

Regarding your comment,

Nevertheless I do not see any concrete data from your posting that makes me realize that "organic farming increases the yield".

• Data is available on Internet to anybody who wants to search, collect and analyze without bias.
  
• Or one can visit the farms where farmers are practicing the organic farming / natural farming
  
• Or one can talk to farmers who are practicing the organic farming / natural farming

Regarding your comment,

We are focusing on how to make agriculture commercially successful and what I have been preaching is increasing efficiencies is the only way which should result in increased quality yield. For that end result if it takes the investment then so be it.

Provided the investment is available for the interested farmers interested in increasing efficiencies.

Already the farm sector is starved of funds on reasonable terms & conditions / suffering from non - availability of loans from banks.

Instead of paying of loans and freebies which in any case never help the poor farmers it is about time we take a hard commercial approach towards farming and make it a success story.

Low Input / Zero Input Sustainable Agriculture practices, like Integrated Natural Framing is the real answer for solving the problems of Poor Farmers and it is proving practically all over India.

Here is what we can do instead of visiting any organizations and debate on what is good.

why do not look at the actual results.

Regarding your comment

You go ahead and find one farmer who is growing color capsicum organically and collect his data and publish on this forum. I am doing a commercial farm using hydroponics where I am planting 6000 plants.

Lets compare yield, costs, profits, fruit quality one on one. That sure will be a great comparison which will enlighten lot of folks.


If you want to promote your hydroponic services, why you do not start new thread and promote it.

Why you are creating confusion in the tread that is discussing the Organic farming / Integrated natural farming / farming based on any need to purchase the man made chemicals.

Let us see, time will prove, what really helps in making money for the poor farmers.

Let us compare on the Nutritional content / gram basis, ROI basis on, finally it is the money / ROI that is important in the commercial agriculture and the Nutritional content / gram basis for the consumers.

Let us find out how many farmers can afford to go in for the cultivation of the Color Capsicum in the Green House based on Hydroponic.

The first and important aim of our activities, related to the promotion of the Organic Framing / Integrated Natural Framing is to solve the problems of the poor marginal land holding farmers and land less farm labors in India.

Regards

MRC