A Different Take on Organic Agriculture

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atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Hi Guys,

Came across this wonderful post right here on AI.com and all those who blindly believe in Organic, Sustainable, Let Nature do the job etc beliefs I think this will be an eye opener.

Regards

Atul
====================================

==================================

One Hand Clapping: Organic Farming in India
One Hand Clapping: Organic Farming in India

By Dave Wood, December 12, 2002

Vandana Shiva now consistently recommends agricultural policies that will damage Indian farm productivity and national competitiveness in global agricultural trade. Will Shiva's bad advice wreck Indian farming?

She now pushes for organic agriculture. In her 'rejection' speech for her Johannesburg 'BS award for sustaining poverty' (posted on AgBioView 25 November) she praises an early promoter of organic agriculture in India, Sir 'Alfred' Howard.

Her multiple errors start with the name. He was Albert Howard, not Alfred. He was born half way through Victoria's reign in 1873 and probably named after her consort, Prince Albert.

Howard's 1940 book 'An Agricultural Testament' promoting organic agriculture is just that – a testament to pseudo-religious belief, rather than farming fact. At the time it was criticized as 'muck and magic'. Shiva concentrates only on the muck – the cow dung. But she is wrong
again: very simply, there are not enough cows in the India or the world to provide enough nutrients for today's food crops.

A real agricultural scientist, E.J. Russell, in his 'History of Agricultural Science in Great Britain' (p. 467), was highly critical of Howard, claiming that farmers could never make the hundreds of tons of compost annually required to give even moderate crop increases.

This is also true for India: a 'History of Agriculture in India' (Randhawa, M.S., 1983, Vol. 3, p. 314, written by an Indian who wished to promote, rather than destroy, Indian agriculture) was yet more critical:



"Howard, apart from being a scientist, was also a crusader. He spread his gospel of organic manuring in the English-speaking countries through his books. There were some faddists among his followers who regarded chemical fertilizers as an anathema and strongly opposed the setting up of fertilizer factories in India. This shows how dangerous it is to entrust policy matters to people with single track minds." Of the 8 million tons of nutrients removed at harvest in India, it was only possible to return 4.2m t through organics. The negative balance was tremendous: "the main reason for low crop yields in India".
While Howard was stationed in India, the 1928 Royal Commission on Agriculture in India reported that the soil 'reached state of maximum impoverishment many years ago' and identified a general lack of nitrogen. Note that this was under organic farming as espoused by Shiva.

There is no way whatever that cows in India can produce enough organic fertilizer to grow enough food for India's present population: Shiva must know this. And cow dung in India is needed not just for fertilizer – it is needed for fuel and as the bonding agent for plaster and mud-brick needed for housing. Shiva's recommendations for organic farming in Indian is the repetition of foreign dogma, a 'one hand clapping' approach.

In contrast, the current national and state extension recommendation for many Indian crops is the application of many cartloads of farmyard manure plus – always plus – high levels of synthetic fertilizer. The recommendation of Indian extension scientists thus goes beyond the dogma of only adding organic matter to the soil. It is the 'two hands clapping' approach that combines the nutrient retention of soil biomass with essential nutrients of plant food added as synthetic fertilizer. Each is needed. This complementarity is banned under the ultra-organic dogma peddled by Shiva and the Soil Association. As a bonus of the dual approach, the synthetic nutrients promote higher biomass production by the crop, and, in turn, yet more organic residues in the soil in a cycle of improvement.

Bio-contamination by cow DNA?

With the blinkered thinking of a dogmatic 'one-hand clapper' Shiva then ignores the other message in Howard's book - 'neovitalism'. This is the 'magic' part of the 'muck and magic' package.

Howard believed that soil receives a 'vital principle' from animal manure that moves to food plants and then to humans: this contributes to human health. What is this 'vital principle'? If vital, it can be none other than genetic. If food plants incorporate cow DNA from manure, such plants are at the same time genetically modified and also strictly banned as food for Hindus. If Shiva wishes to be a full disciple of Howard she has to believe in 'vitalism'. If so, she will be unable eat any plant food manured with cow dung. For a Brahmin believer in Howard's doctrines there is little else left to eat – perhaps hydroponic vegetables or seaweed?

Natural monocultures

There is another fundamental error in Howard's book, specifically endorsed by Shiva. Howard (Agricultural Testament p.13) believed that Indian farmers followed 'Nature's method as seen in the primeval forest'. Shiva argues that ''The method of mixed cropping is part of the adaptation of nature's ways in which cereal crops like millet, wheat, barley and maize are mixed with pulses, providing nutrition to give better results than monocultures''. Howard and Shiva are badly misreading the ecology of real nature.

Shiva is exactly wrong on this [exactly wrong is when, from a wide range of wrong positions, the one exactly opposite to the truth is chosen]. There is no way whatever that key cereals such as rice, wheat, sorghum, millet and barley have anything to do with primeval forest. No farmer anywhere would ever try to grow wind-pollinated cereals in forest – there would be no pollination, no seed, no food for us, and billions would starve. The forest as the sole ecological model for fields is the mega-bunk of foreign NGOs aimed at damaging Indian national crop production.

The reality of monocultures is the exact opposite: all our important Old World cereals have immediate wild relatives growing in vast monodominant natural grasslands throughout Asia and Africa. These natural monocultures were a key source of gathered food before farming; seem to have been maintained and toughened by seasonal fire or flood disturbance (reducing functionally-surplus biodiversity); are the ecological antithesis of 'primeval forest'; and provide exact monoculture models to early farmers for tree-free cereal fields.

Thus there is sound applied ecology underpinning our cereal monocultures. The historical and robust ecological benefits of cereal monocultures directly derived from 'primeval grassland' continue to this day, providing most of our food [see the peer-reviewed Wood, D. and Lenné, J. 2001 Nature's Fields: a neglected model for increasing food production. Outlook on Agriculture 30, 165-174].

Anti-monoculturalists such as Shiva will continue to ignore these ecological facts and dismiss the practical genius of early farmers who chose productive and simple grassland ecosystems as stable models for our fields.

Imperial role models

It is curious that an Indian bio-feminist like V. Shiva should praise the imperialist male Howard, who was Imperial Economic Botanist at the Imperial Agricultural Institute at Pusa in Bihar (and before that Imperial Mycologist in the British West Indian colonies). If Shiva needs to identify Imperial agricultural heroes, there are better and more original models than Albert Howard, whose cranky ideas could still damage Indian agriculture.

Fifty years before Howard the agricultural chemist Voelcker gave detailed descriptions of traditional mixed and rotational cropping in India (Voelcker, J.A. 1894 Report of the Improvement of Indian Agriculture. Eyre and Spottiswoode, London, pp. xxxiii, 460). For example, p. 233, mixed cropping - "has the advantage of providing against the fluctuations of season, for, should one crop from any reason fail, the other will probably stand and cover the ground. This is a matter of no small moment, seeing that the raiyat's entire holding is only a few acres in extent, and that it has to feed, him, his family, and his cattle..." p. 234 ''... alternating rows may themselves be made up of mixtures of different crops, some of them quick growing and reaped early, others of slower growth and requiring both sun and air, and thus being reaped after the former have been cleared off. Again, some are deep-rooted plants, others are surface feeders, some require the shelter of other plants, and some will thrive alone". Note that Voelcker gives several reasons here for mixed cropping that have no relation whatever to the anti-fertilizer dogmas of the Soil Association.

Howard seems to have plagiarized Voelcker's observations (and Howard's disciples have ignored the insights of the agricultural chemist Voelcker).

And if a bio-feminist like Shiva wants a female role-model, she should recognize the scientific contribution of Howard's first wife, Gabrielle. Mrs Howard was an accomplished professional wheat breeder, working with excellent Indian scientists on the early high-yielding and rust-resistant 'Pusa' varieties. By 1927 12% of Indian wheat production was from such 'modern' varieties.

Remaining information can be read
as the size constraint doe snot allow full listing.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

hmpo

Member
Most of Vandana Shiva's approach is mis-interpreted by this article. Conventional agricultural scientists have an incomplete understanding of soil, ecology, the interaction between plants, microbes, insects and animals. They design studies which validate their limited understanding. The example of monoculture in a temperate climate does not translate well in a tropical country like ours. We can't apply that idea and replace our rich forests with say monocultural teak plantations!
Most organic and natural farming advocates, do ask that you do your fair share of observations of the natural world and adjust your methods accordingly. There is no single best approach, but one major disagreement with modern agriculture is for natural farming, the soil is a living media not meant to be tampered with unnecessarily.
 

gvaranam

Member
Some mis-concepts.

I am fully unaware about the studies of Sir. Albert Howard or the theories of Ms.Vandana Shiva . But I can tell you my experience from my practical life. In 2003 I purchased a coconut farm in South -west coastal part of Karnataka. The previous owner was giving 5kgs of NPK mixture of 15:15:15 to each of the trees apart from lump sum attigobra {cow dungs along with the dry leaves}. Those were given after cleaning and removing the outer layer of the roots of the coconut trees. Those trees were 15 years old. He was harvesting 5000 tender coconuts from 125 trees per year. He might be taking less than 500 coconuts for his home use also. The yield varies largely from tree to tree. Some trees near house were giving up to 300 tender coconuts. Some were giving hardly 2-3 or even less. More than 20 trees had not even a single nut. First year we also followed his system other than removing the roots. Then in additional we put some 10kgs of Vermicompost per tree in December month. That time we started the irrigation. He was irrigating through channels and was giving some 2,000L water per tree once in a fortnightly. It may reduce to once in a month in April May and early weeks of June. We changed the irrigation system to micro irrigation giving 100L per tree on alternative days. The second year we reduced the chemical fertilizer to 2Kgs and increased the vermi compost 15 Kgs. Third year we fully avoided the chemical fertilizer and gave 15 Kgs of compost only. The second year we harvested 6100 Tender coconut and 750 coconuts. Third year we got 10,000 Tender coconuts and 1,200 coconuts. Fourth year it jumped to 22,000 T.C and 1500 coconuts. We stopped harvesting the TC if it was lass than 10 in a tree. From fifth year onwards the harvest is approximately 33,000 TC and less than 1000 coconuts. [Just for the residential use and for oil requirements]. The size and taste of the TC increased dramatically. As the demand increased for our TC the dealers offered us a better price also. Four HF cows and the FYM gave us sufficient raw materials for the required vermi composts for 125 coconut trees, 500 Arecanut trees and 1,000 plantains. We got sufficient bio-gas for cooking and other requirements also. The slurry came out of the bio-gas system is very superior quality comparing the regular cow dung.
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys,

Came across this wonderful post right here on AI.com and all those who blindly believe in Organic, Sustainable, Let Nature do the job etc beliefs I think this will be an eye opener.

Regards

Atul
====================================

==================================

One Hand Clapping: Organic Farming in India
One Hand Clapping: Organic Farming in India

By Dave Wood, December 12, 2002

Vandana Shiva now consistently recommends agricultural policies that will damage Indian farm productivity and national competitiveness in global agricultural trade. Will Shiva's bad advice wreck Indian farming?

She now pushes for organic agriculture. In her 'rejection' speech for her Johannesburg 'BS award for sustaining poverty' (posted on AgBioView 25 November) she praises an early promoter of organic agriculture in India, Sir 'Alfred' Howard.

Her multiple errors start with the name. He was Albert Howard, not Alfred. He was born half way through Victoria's reign in 1873 and probably named after her consort, Prince Albert.

Howard's 1940 book 'An Agricultural Testament' promoting organic agriculture is just that – a testament to pseudo-religious belief, rather than farming fact. At the time it was criticized as 'muck and magic'. Shiva concentrates only on the muck – the cow dung. But she is wrong
again: very simply, there are not enough cows in the India or the world to provide enough nutrients for today's food crops.

A real agricultural scientist, E.J. Russell, in his 'History of Agricultural Science in Great Britain' (p. 467), was highly critical of Howard, claiming that farmers could never make the hundreds of tons of compost annually required to give even moderate crop increases.

This is also true for India: a 'History of Agriculture in India' (Randhawa, M.S., 1983, Vol. 3, p. 314, written by an Indian who wished to promote, rather than destroy, Indian agriculture) was yet more critical:



"Howard, apart from being a scientist, was also a crusader. He spread his gospel of organic manuring in the English-speaking countries through his books. There were some faddists among his followers who regarded chemical fertilizers as an anathema and strongly opposed the setting up of fertilizer factories in India. This shows how dangerous it is to entrust policy matters to people with single track minds." Of the 8 million tons of nutrients removed at harvest in India, it was only possible to return 4.2m t through organics. The negative balance was tremendous: "the main reason for low crop yields in India".
While Howard was stationed in India, the 1928 Royal Commission on Agriculture in India reported that the soil 'reached state of maximum impoverishment many years ago' and identified a general lack of nitrogen. Note that this was under organic farming as espoused by Shiva.

There is no way whatever that cows in India can produce enough organic fertilizer to grow enough food for India's present population: Shiva must know this. And cow dung in India is needed not just for fertilizer – it is needed for fuel and as the bonding agent for plaster and mud-brick needed for housing. Shiva's recommendations for organic farming in Indian is the repetition of foreign dogma, a 'one hand clapping' approach.

In contrast, the current national and state extension recommendation for many Indian crops is the application of many cartloads of farmyard manure plus – always plus – high levels of synthetic fertilizer. The recommendation of Indian extension scientists thus goes beyond the dogma of only adding organic matter to the soil. It is the 'two hands clapping' approach that combines the nutrient retention of soil biomass with essential nutrients of plant food added as synthetic fertilizer. Each is needed. This complementarity is banned under the ultra-organic dogma peddled by Shiva and the Soil Association. As a bonus of the dual approach, the synthetic nutrients promote higher biomass production by the crop, and, in turn, yet more organic residues in the soil in a cycle of improvement.

Bio-contamination by cow DNA?

With the blinkered thinking of a dogmatic 'one-hand clapper' Shiva then ignores the other message in Howard's book - 'neovitalism'. This is the 'magic' part of the 'muck and magic' package.

Howard believed that soil receives a 'vital principle' from animal manure that moves to food plants and then to humans: this contributes to human health. What is this 'vital principle'? If vital, it can be none other than genetic. If food plants incorporate cow DNA from manure, such plants are at the same time genetically modified and also strictly banned as food for Hindus. If Shiva wishes to be a full disciple of Howard she has to believe in 'vitalism'. If so, she will be unable eat any plant food manured with cow dung. For a Brahmin believer in Howard's doctrines there is little else left to eat – perhaps hydroponic vegetables or seaweed?

Natural monocultures

There is another fundamental error in Howard's book, specifically endorsed by Shiva. Howard (Agricultural Testament p.13) believed that Indian farmers followed 'Nature's method as seen in the primeval forest'. Shiva argues that ''The method of mixed cropping is part of the adaptation of nature's ways in which cereal crops like millet, wheat, barley and maize are mixed with pulses, providing nutrition to give better results than monocultures''. Howard and Shiva are badly misreading the ecology of real nature.

Shiva is exactly wrong on this [exactly wrong is when, from a wide range of wrong positions, the one exactly opposite to the truth is chosen]. There is no way whatever that key cereals such as rice, wheat, sorghum, millet and barley have anything to do with primeval forest. No farmer anywhere would ever try to grow wind-pollinated cereals in forest – there would be no pollination, no seed, no food for us, and billions would starve. The forest as the sole ecological model for fields is the mega-bunk of foreign NGOs aimed at damaging Indian national crop production.

The reality of monocultures is the exact opposite: all our important Old World cereals have immediate wild relatives growing in vast monodominant natural grasslands throughout Asia and Africa. These natural monocultures were a key source of gathered food before farming; seem to have been maintained and toughened by seasonal fire or flood disturbance (reducing functionally-surplus biodiversity); are the ecological antithesis of 'primeval forest'; and provide exact monoculture models to early farmers for tree-free cereal fields.

Thus there is sound applied ecology underpinning our cereal monocultures. The historical and robust ecological benefits of cereal monocultures directly derived from 'primeval grassland' continue to this day, providing most of our food [see the peer-reviewed Wood, D. and Lenné, J. 2001 Nature's Fields: a neglected model for increasing food production. Outlook on Agriculture 30, 165-174].

Anti-monoculturalists such as Shiva will continue to ignore these ecological facts and dismiss the practical genius of early farmers who chose productive and simple grassland ecosystems as stable models for our fields.

Imperial role models

It is curious that an Indian bio-feminist like V. Shiva should praise the imperialist male Howard, who was Imperial Economic Botanist at the Imperial Agricultural Institute at Pusa in Bihar (and before that Imperial Mycologist in the British West Indian colonies). If Shiva needs to identify Imperial agricultural heroes, there are better and more original models than Albert Howard, whose cranky ideas could still damage Indian agriculture.
Hello,

What is problem with you?

Why you are so much interested in spreading negative fact about Organic Farming / Natural farming.

What is your objective behind / what you want to achieve by posting all these negative facts about Organic Farming / Natural farming.

What you have achieved till date by posting all these negative facts about Organic Farming / Natural farming.

People who believe in Organic Farming / Natural farming will never get diverted from what they believe in.

All your destructive efforts to tell the people negative stories / twisted facts about organic farming will go waste.

It is better you put your efforts in some constructive activities and do some positive contribution toward the farm sector.

The faith / belief of the people who are involved in organic farming / natural farming gets developed by practical experience gained by involving themselves with nature / observing the nature and not by reading books.

If you do not have belief in the "Organic Farming" / "Natural Farming", what is the problem with you if others believe in / practice "Organic Farming" / "Natural Farming"

Do not get involve yourself in activities of commenting about Organic Farming in negative way, in which you do not believe in and in which you do not have any experience.

By commenting on "Organic Farming" in negative way, what you want to achieve or what you hope to achieve.

Let the people do what they are doing in "organic farming" and you do what you want to do in "Hydroponic"

What problem you have if the people do "organic farming" on their land with their own money and with their own efforts.

Remember that you have right / freedom of expressing your thoughts, but there are responsibilities also.

Regards

MRC
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
I guess you have kinda lost the game......look carefully....this post is already existing on the AI. These are not my views.

Go smell coffee and stop being a such a cry baby.
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
I guess you have kinda lost the game......look carefully....this post is already existing on the AI. These are not my views.

Go smell coffee and stop being a such a cry baby.
Hello,

It is better you put your efforts in some constructive activities and do some positive contribution toward the farm sector.

Regards

MRC
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Hello,

It is better you put your efforts in some constructive activities and do some positive contribution toward the farm sector.

Regards

MRC
Don't need your advise, I am doing extremely constructive work for myself and for those who want to do agriculture as a sound and ethical business.

We don't intend to sell dreams, lousy shares of fictional companies or dangle carrots of some down trodden African country opportunity.

If at all do yourself a favor, take a look at your own posts and see if any of those can be constructive ever?

We the educated and honest lot of people very well know who is doing what to farm sector. So Adios!!!
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Dear Gvaranam,

So please tell me.....from 5000 coconuts from 125 trees your production increased to 33000

in 5 years. This means ave 40 coconuts per tree the production went up to 264 coconuts per plant. That's a huge increase especially when as per the plant physiology study puts annual production of 60-100 coconuts per plant. Did we beat the plant DNA or what? We certainly would like to understand the details.

What is an average production of coconut per plant per annum as per your knowledge?
What contributed to such increase in scientific terms?
Has this been replicated in any other area with similar results?

4 cows gave enough dung that created the compost for 124 coconut plants and 1500 other plants plus you had enough cow dung left for gas as well.

This is too good to be true my friend.....but in case it is true which I hope it is have you submitted this to any publication, agency...because this is a huge huge accomplishment.

Imagine 4 cows can feed 1650 trees and produce goods worth many tens of lakhs...Just Amazing.
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Dear Gvaranam,

So please tell me.....from 5000 coconuts from 125 trees your production increased to 33000

in 5 years. This means ave 40 coconuts per tree the production went up to 264 coconuts per plant. That's a huge increase especially when as per the plant physiology study puts annual production of 60-100 coconuts per plant. Did we beat the plant DNA or what? We certainly would like to understand the details.

What is an average production of coconut per plant per annum as per your knowledge?
What contributed to such increase in scientific terms?
Has this been replicated in any other area with similar results?

4 cows gave enough dung that created the compost for 124 coconut plants and 1500 other plants plus you had enough cow dung left for gas as well.

This is too good to be true my friend.....but in case it is true which I hope it is have you submitted this to any publication, agency...because this is a huge huge accomplishment.

Imagine 4 cows can feed 1650 trees and produce goods worth many tens of lakhs...Just Amazing.
Hello,

So what you suggest is to go for Hydroponic Coconut Plantation to improve the yield.

Regards

MRC
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Don't need your advise, I am doing extremely constructive work for myself and for those who want to do agriculture as a sound and ethical business.

We don't intend to sell dreams, lousy shares of fictional companies or dangle carrots of some down trodden African country opportunity.

If at all do yourself a favor, take a look at your own posts and see if any of those can be constructive ever?

We the educated and honest lot of people very well know who is doing what to farm sector. So Adios!!!
Hello,

Thanks for your response.

Our business plans about various Food and Agriculture Projects are getting evaluated / appreciated by the Investment Bankers / PE firms around the world including India.

Our efforts in bringing equity capital to fund the farm production activities is getting appreciated.

Time will prove what we are doing is ethical or not and we will prove that we were not selling dreams, lousy shares of fictional companies or dangle carrots of some down trodden African country opportunity.

In future the shares of our various Public Limited Companies that will be listed on Stock market in India and abroad will reflect that the reality of dreams that we dared to saw and efforts we put in converting dreams into reality.

If you have any knowledge / information about the development taking place around the world, you would have never mentioned about the opportunities in Africa as

" dangle carrots of some down trodden African country "

The game of next economic boom will be played in Africa.

Regards

MRC
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
I don't suggest Hydroponics for coconut planting but how about a public limited company whose businesses are listed on International stock markets with many many share holders hoping to reap rich harvest from say 4 cows, few hundred coconut plants and of course you MRC!!!

:)
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
I don't suggest Hydroponics for coconut planting but how about a public limited company whose businesses are listed on International stock markets with many many share holders hoping to reap rich harvest from say 4 cows, few hundred coconut plants and of course you MRC!!!

:)
Hello,

Thanks for posting your response

And also thanks for suggestions about

to reap rich harvest from say 4 cows, few hundred coconut plants

Don't underestimate the importance of COW and COCONUT TREE

Both COW and COCONUT TREE if managed properly with due respect can work economic miracle.

Regarding your comment

I don't suggest Hydroponics for coconut planting

Then what you want to suggest to improve the yield in coconut plantation.

Regarding your comment,

how about a public limited company whose businesses are listed on International stock markets with many many share holders hoping to reap rich harvest from say 4 cows, few hundred coconut plants and of course you MRC!!!

What activities and the scale of activities that will be undertaken by our Public Limited Company, whose share will be listed on stock exchange in India and out side India, will be known to everybody.

Time to come will prove what we are doing and what our share holders will be getting for investing in our Public Limited Company.

For your information, today I am not alone and there are many in our team and many of them have PhD and more than 30 years practical experience in the Food - Agriculture sector.

Everybody will know who are in our team, we will be putting our website soon.

Regards

MRC
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Excellent............so do you own the Vintage Farms? Will that company be also listed on the international bourses?
Hello,

Is it necessary to disclose who owns what?

And

Is it necessary to disclose the future plans in advance?

We will disclose in detail, at appropriate time, the wealth created for our investors / share holders / first round investors.

Regards

MRC
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Well....from what you have been writing it sure appears as if you are the one who is heading it?

I mean if you are not a promoter of the company then how come you can be so confident about it's plans?
 

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Well....from what you have been writing it sure appears as if you are the one who is heading it?

I mean if you are not a promoter of the company then how come you can be so confident about it's plans?
Hello,

I have limitations on me to disclose the information.

Corporate sector company promoter need to follow lot of rules.

We will disclose in detail, at appropriate time, all the things as per the rules of SEBI

Regards

MRC
 

gvaranam

Member
Coconut production

Dear Athul,

Initially you read my article properly. 33,000 Tender Coconuts and 1000 coconuts from 145 trees means240 nut per tree per year. 60-100 coconuts per plant is the statistics of 1980s not 2000 or after wards. You clarify this with the CPCRI of India. The yield will almost double if you are harvesting Tender coconuts. If you can come to Udupi [ a costal town in Karnataka 60Kms north of Mangalore] I shall show you some plantation where the average yield is 400 nuts per plant per year. Of course it is not mine. As a farmer I do not have anything to contribute on scientific terms. In my experience a number of scientific studies and terms are totally wrong in practical life. The above one you told is the first example. Who told you the top sealing of production of a coconut tree is just 100 nuts per year? I know few rare trees producing nearly 1000 nut per year. 1000 nuts from a tree means the out put of the tree in terms of weight is more than two tonnes. So if we replace the same to the trees it will continue its production. More than 200Kgs of VC may require to compensate.

I think, you believe that while collecting the bio-gas from cow dung the entire dung will transferred as gas. No! Only formed gas we are collecting. The cow dung in volume or weight will not reduce. This slurry is 100 times better than just dry dung. Dry leaves of trees and farm wastes along with 10% cow dung and azolla will be heaped for 45-60 days and put it for vermi compost. Once the formation is over we can use it as manure. I challenge no fertilizer can compete this compost mixed with micro organics. Can you tell how much dung we can get from a HF cow in a day in scientific terms. I am not sure. But practically we are getting almost 100Kgs of urine and dung together with in 24 hours. Both are good maneuver. So instead of depending on some body's study blindly, you see the things around you also.
With respect and regards.
George Varanam.
 

atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Hi George,

I am interested in knowing the details because this is where facts and fiction i separated. Furthermore our grass root innovations and discoveries needs to be put forward in a scientific manner so the world can acknowledge it and there can be a commercial value for someone like you.
Otherwise like our Aurveda knowledge some westerner will take the patent and we are left high and dry.

It is important that a successful business model must come out of your experiment which can be replicated anywhere (at least where coconuts grow well to start with and then with additional inputs where they do not do well)

I hope you understand my quest for making our studies / discoveries more scientific so that instead of they appearing too good to be true, one must be able to evaluate the facts and thus follow the model.

I urge you take this opportunity and convert this knowledge of yours into a model that can be sold and will benefit farmers. Take a look at this story and hope it will inspire you.
High yield: TN man develops new coconut variety - NDTV.com - News on TN man develops new coconut variety

Once again understand the urge behind securing the know how and turning it into knowledge paid or free...

Regards

Atul Kalaskar
 
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atulkalaskar

Senior Member
Sorry MRC....

This is why I find so hard to trust people like you.

Vintage farms are already advertised all over. Take a look at this link.

I am selling agricuture and residencial plots in PUNE-AHMADNAGAR - Pune: Land - Plot For Sale in Pune at Quikr Pune

Why are you claiming all the bogus things about SEBI rules? Does SEBI rules allow you to publish everywhere else and not just on AI.com?

If you are a sales agent then it is an honorable profession and you should be proud to represent it. Anyway enough of this. I understood your way of operation fairly well now.

Be good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

vishwakarma

Well-Known Member
Sorry MRC....

This is why I find so hard to trust people like you.

Vintage farms are already advertised all over. Take a look at this link.

I am selling agricuture and residencial plots in PUNE-AHMADNAGAR - Pune: Land - Plot For Sale in Pune at Quikr Pune

Why are you claiming all the bogus things about SEBI rules? Does SEBI rules allow you to publish everywhere else and not just on AI.com?

If you are a sales agent then it is an honorable profession and you should be proud to represent it. Anyway enough of this. I understood your way of operation fairly well now.

Be good.
Hello,

Thanks for posting your response.

Regarding your comment,

Sorry MRC....

There is nothing to be sorry about

Regarding your comment,

This is why I find so hard to trust people like you.

It is your problem, what I can do.

I cannot help you to trust me.

I cannot force anybody to trust me.

I am not telling others to trust me.

Any way you never trusted me.

We had difference of opinion when we had first and last meeting in Hotel Ganaraj, Bajirao Road, Pune.

Any way what difference it makes if you trust me or do not trust me.

If you trust me or not,

" Organic Farming is going to get a more popular day by day, based on its own inherent core strength. "

Regarding your comment,

Vintage farms are already advertised all over. Take a look at this link.

I am selling agricuture and residencial plots in PUNE-AHMADNAGAR - Pune: Land - Plot For Sale in Pune at Quikr Pune


So what is your problem if I advertise Vintage Farm on this website.

Vintage Farm and similar projects like this will make it possible for all the people who wants to get involved in Organic Farming, without need to face the problems, that normally a outsider / non farmers person from the city have to face to take up farming / organic farming in the Rural India.

All over the world the investment in the "Farm Land" from the professional investors is picking up.

Farm land, that will produce farm products to fulfill the need to feed the population, is in great demand all over the world

You can ref to past communication, I never said that I am the only person who is advertising about Vintage Farm.

Vintage Farm promoters have put in efforts in bringing this Organic Farming Project concept on 565 acres up to this stage and many people who wanted to take up the farming / organic farming face so many problems in Rural India.

I believe that this Vintage Farm project will help the promotion of Organic Farming and people who wants to take up organic farming.

I believe in Organic Farming.

I will keep doing, till I can do it, whatever possible that I can do, to promote the "Organic Farming"

"Organic Farming" is one of the best possible solution available today, to meet the growing need of, affordable and healthy food of, the growing population all over the world.

Every where, all over the world the Green Revolution has failed to offer sustainable solution and have created more problems than the problem it has solved.

All the fact about the problems created by Green Revolution, which heavily depends on introduction of man made chemicals in Food Chain are documented in detail.

Regarding your comment,

Why are you claiming all the bogus things about SEBI rules?

If you want you can take up this matter to SEBI.

Let the SEBI decide if I am claiming bogus things or not

Regarding your comment,

Does SEBI rules allow you to publish everywhere else and not just on AI.com?


SEBI rules do not stop me from promoting Organic Farming Projects like Vintage Farm and similar other organic farming projects that will be promoted all over India in different states with the active support from the Organic Farm Product buyers in India and Abroad.

SEBI rules do not stop me from promoting, the solutions available to the people / the agribusiness entrepreneurs and specifically those who are from non-farm sector and want to change, to live their life to Organic Framing lifestyle which is far better than the present options available to them in the metro city life style.

People can have both Health and Wealth, by getting involved in Organic Farming, with the help of projects like Vintage Farm and similar other organic farming projects that will be promoted all over India in different states with the active support from the Organic Farm Product buyers in India and Abroad.

Regarding your comment,

If you are a sales agent then it is an honorable profession and you should be proud to represent it.


Thanks for your comment.

I know who am and what I am doing.

Promoting "Organic farming" is my main activity.

One thing I want to make clear that my survival do not depend on my activities of promoting "Organic farming" or by selling the land in Vintage Farm or similar project that are coming up in different states all over India.

Interested buyer can directly approach the Vintage Farm promoters or the promoters of the similar project that are coming up in different states all over India.

Anybody who is interested in taking up Organic Farming can contact me by sending private message to me, I will help them, in whatever way possible for me.

Regarding your comment,

Anyway enough of this.

It is up to you.

Any way I am going to promote "Organic Farming" and will help the people who want to take up "Organic Farming"

Regarding your comment,

I understood your way of operation fairly well now.

I hope so.

Regarding your comment,

Be good.

Thanks for advice,

Sorry

Keep it for yourself.

Regards

MRC
 
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